Who's gonna win?!

[The Doctor]

(11-07-2012 02:18 PM)Mustang Wrote:  Matt interesting chart but anyone can fluff a chart but facts are facts.

fact   [fakt]
noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.


This right here..... is just retarded... What you basically said was "Anyone can use numbers, but words are much more important!" I'm not sure how you can "fluff" a chart. The unemployment rate and value of the US dollar are numbers. Those are facts. If it's 8.9% you can't say it's anything other than it is.

Saying "Oh well he didn't live up to what he said" is NOT a fact. It's an opinion. There is no scientific absolute to "Well, he said-"

this is why we need to improve our school systems...

[the falcon]

(11-07-2012 12:30 PM)MVBrutaleRider Wrote:  

(11-07-2012 11:11 AM)Mustang Wrote:  Haha straight out of the liberal talking points!...

Me thinks that has something to do with me being a liberal...

(11-07-2012 11:11 AM)Mustang Wrote:  ...The MSM has done a great job and blaming Bush for anything and everything all the why'll protecting Obama and the Demacrocks.

im certainly not protecting anyone... I am supportive of the candidate that most closely represents my beliefs. Obama has his issues for sure. Democrats have their own set of issues though. Hell, getting dems to agree on anything collectively is like herding cats. On the other hand, Repubs tend to focus more on control through hate and fear - often religiously driven and disguised as "moral" or "right". I am most certainly NOT a religious person and strongly feel that religion has NO PLACE in government. I don't have any issues with religion however, and respect ones right to worship as they feel, but that worship or belief should never be forced upon anyone, conventionally or through government and lawmaking. Obviously this presents its own set of challenges in determining what is in fact moral or right or wrong, but I fully agree with you in that social issues have no place at the federal level - most don't have a place at the local and state level either for that matter. If it doesn't hurt anyone and makes some people happy, why the hell not?

On the healthcare thing, however, that is not only a social issue, but in fact a federal financial issue. Government subsidizing (where people got the term take-over is beyond me) of health care insurance is FAR less expensive than the cash payouts to the hospitals in the form of tax write-offs. It also allows people, like myself, that work my ass off but still cant afford my own health insurance, to no be completely bankrupt in the even that I trip and fall and break my arm.

Having been in the ER with insurance (back when i had it), and my EX fiance without insurance for similar medical issues, the difference is astounding in the billing. With insurance, you are in and out as fast as they can get you through with relatively low bills. Without insurance, however, you get the royal treatment, as many test and scans and MRIs and X-Rays and blood work and anything they can possibly rack up because they (the hospitals) know that you wont be able to pay it. after failed collection attempts (mostly phone calls or an internal collection department), it is written off as a bad debt and actually get more back from that than they would have if you had insurance. Never once have I seen an ER actually make a legit effort to collect money through a court or otherwise (and my ex had $150K worth of medical bills from a back injury that was never paid) because if they did, they wouldn't be able to do the write-off.

Bush, on the other hand, is as crooked and just plain dumb as they get. He never wrote a speech on his own or even contributed to one. Hell, any news/press conference, all questions had to be pre-screened and selectively asked so that he had an already determined answer. The man is incapable of making his own *intelligent* decisions. He was nothing more than a puppet and was not fit for the position of president in any way, shape or form. Not to mention the most expensive and longest war, that was not a war on terrorism - it was/still is protecting oil plain and simple. Keeping the middle east in turmoil allows us the ability to move in and maintain control of the oil - but this is a whole 'nother series of threads in itself.

One thing that does crack me up about the political right is that generally they are the ones screaming about too much government and everything needs to be de-regulated and the government needs to get out of peoples lives - yet they are the very same people telling you what you cant do (same sex marriage, birth control, ect.)

on that note, the problem with de-regulation is not one of government. It is one of individuals within those industries and companies that take advantage the lack of regulation by doing, generally, bad or un-ethical things for the sake of the bottom line, but its "OK" because it isn't illegal. things spiral out of control very quickly. Monopolies are formed and then there is no longer such a thing as free market. There needs to be oversight and a system of checks and balances so that samll biz can have a sporting chance to make it and offer options and advance growth of an economy.

I'll climb down off my soap box now.

- Justindude, my brain broke halfway through but +1!!

[JetMech]

So Matt, if you have ever taken an upper level analytical statistics class, you will know that numbers and charts, though based in factual numbers, CAN be manipulated.

[The Doctor]

(11-07-2012 05:53 PM)JetMech Wrote:  So Matt, if you have ever taken an upper level analytical statistics class, you will know that numbers and charts, though based in factual numbers, CAN be manipulated.

Not when the axis are all standardized and un-broken. Sure you could have one graph where the dollar value goes from 0-10 and one from 5-8. But that's not the case in any of these.

And the values for the unemployment rate do change, but if anything it does a disservice to the Democrats. Clinton's unemployment rate starts at 3.5%, lower than any of the other presidents, and tops out at 7.5%, also lower than any of the other presidents. The moral of the story is Bill Clinton is amazing.

[Mustang]

I see it a bit diffrent, Why was he amazing? Beside getting head in the oval office!

(11-07-2012 11:10 PM)The Doctor Wrote:  

(11-07-2012 05:53 PM)JetMech Wrote:  So Matt, if you have ever taken an upper level analytical statistics class, you will know that numbers and charts, though based in factual numbers, CAN be manipulated.

Not when the axis are all standardized and un-broken. Sure you could have one graph where the dollar value goes from 0-10 and one from 5-8. But that's not the case in any of these.

And the values for the unemployment rate do change, but if anything it does a disservice to the Democrats. Clinton's unemployment rate starts at 3.5%, lower than any of the other presidents, and tops out at 7.5%, also lower than any of the other presidents. The moral of the story is Bill Clinton is amazing.

[JetMech]

(11-08-2012 07:57 AM)Mustang Wrote:  Beside getting head in the oval office!

Nuff Said!!!

[The Doctor]

(11-08-2012 07:57 AM)Mustang Wrote:  I see it a bit diffrent, Why was he amazing? Beside getting head in the oval office!

(11-07-2012 11:10 PM)The Doctor Wrote:  

(11-07-2012 05:53 PM)JetMech Wrote:  So Matt, if you have ever taken an upper level analytical statistics class, you will know that numbers and charts, though based in factual numbers, CAN be manipulated.

Not when the axis are all standardized and un-broken. Sure you could have one graph where the dollar value goes from 0-10 and one from 5-8. But that's not the case in any of these.

And the values for the unemployment rate do change, but if anything it does a disservice to the Democrats. Clinton's unemployment rate starts at 3.5%, lower than any of the other presidents, and tops out at 7.5%, also lower than any of the other presidents. The moral of the story is Bill Clinton is amazing.

Because I grew up on welfare and food stamps. I was one of the little ghettos rats as a kid. I remember being four years old and in the kitchen as a bullet broke the kitchen window. He implemented some social programs that limited welfare but also allowed single mothers, like mine, to go back to school and receive their GED's for free, since most of them, like mine, didn't have the financial means to do so by themselves. So my mother received her GED and landed a job with what is now HSBC bank, working her way up to eventually become the #1 credit underwriter in Nevada, and allowing us to move out of the ghetto. That's why.

[Mustang]

Matt I also grew up with just a single parent (my mother) so I get what you are saying I do. I read your response and cant help to think that maybe it was your mother who made it happen (not clinton) it hwas her drive to make something of her self and to provide a better life for you. She could have stayed on the goverment tit but she chose not to! I believe your mother is the amazing one not Clinton.

(11-08-2012 01:49 PM)The Doctor Wrote:  

(11-08-2012 07:57 AM)Mustang Wrote:  I see it a bit diffrent, Why was he amazing? Beside getting head in the oval office!

(11-07-2012 11:10 PM)The Doctor Wrote:  

(11-07-2012 05:53 PM)JetMech Wrote:  So Matt, if you have ever taken an upper level analytical statistics class, you will know that numbers and charts, though based in factual numbers, CAN be manipulated.

Not when the axis are all standardized and un-broken. Sure you could have one graph where the dollar value goes from 0-10 and one from 5-8. But that's not the case in any of these.

And the values for the unemployment rate do change, but if anything it does a disservice to the Democrats. Clinton's unemployment rate starts at 3.5%, lower than any of the other presidents, and tops out at 7.5%, also lower than any of the other presidents. The moral of the story is Bill Clinton is amazing.

Because I grew up on welfare and food stamps. I was one of the little ghettos rats as a kid. I remember being four years old and in the kitchen as a bullet broke the kitchen window. He implemented some social programs that limited welfare but also allowed single mothers, like mine, to go back to school and receive their GED's for free, since most of them, like mine, didn't have the financial means to do so by themselves. So my mother received her GED and landed a job with what is now HSBC bank, working her way up to eventually become the #1 credit underwriter in Nevada, and allowing us to move out of the ghetto. That's why.

[Rev. That Guy]

i think tomy knows all about the amazingness that is matt's mom.

And clinton was an amazing president. So he got a blowjob, big fucking deal... he also is the ONLY president in the history of the US to build a financial surplus - one that was quickly reversed when GW hit the white house.

- J

[Mustang]

Hahaha more liberal talking points



[quote='MVBrutaleRider' pid='4971' dateline='1352409856'
And clinton was an amazing president. So he got a blowjob, big fucking deal... he also is the ONLY president in the history of the US to build a financial surplus - one that was quickly reversed when GW hit the white house.

- J
[/quote]